VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [P1 v0.152] [Lust & Passion]

3.20 star(s) 514 Votes
Discussion Reviews (514)
GingerSweetGirl

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
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Sabertooth__ said:
I get what you mean about Sophia's life. As for the job, Sophia has been said to be from a family with an academic background if I am right ( maybe someone could just check it for me ). So getting a job in the academic field should have been easy with her parents connections.
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No no no, this is the definition of mental gymnastics. Parents in academia don't just snap their fingers, call in some favors, and get you a job. Is there corruption and nepotism in academia, sure, but now we're going to assume that it would be "easy" for her parents to get her a job as a professor? Absolutely not. If that were the case then no kid with parents who are professors would ever struggle to get a job.

Also, let's address the elephant in the room- a college educated woman with college educated parents getting pregnant in her early 20s. As educational attainment increases, the average age for a woman's first birth increases proportionally. The median age at the time of first birth for a woman with a master's degree is 30. There's additional research that I've read elsewhere that women coming from highly educated families will wait even longer- so a woman with a master's degree from uneducated parents may wait until 30; while a woman with a master's degree with parents who also have master's degrees may wait (on median) until she's 32.

The point is that, in order for Sophia to give birth at 21 she would not only have to be incredibly busy in her life but would also shatter statistical trends that have existed for decades.

And yeah, maybe I'm overthinking it, but that isn't my fault. It's a glarring error that a creator would concoct such a story and not overthink it. Clearly L&P thought about this topic, he's clearly an educated person himself. But it's like he only half-assed the work enough to please his kink and didn't bother with all the rest. That lack of attention to detail matters though because it has created continuity issues that are glaring if you stop to think about them at all. And this is a game that wants to attract more than the typical audience only interested in a quick wank/jill.

You could even say that this is just another example of L&P's spotty organizational skills. He had an idea, but didn't really think it all the way through.

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jamdan

jamdan

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Sep 28, 2018
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Sophia's educational background was overexposed. We never needed to know any of those things. Are they interesting? I guess so, but they aren't important in the grand scheme of things. This is a slice of life game, you don't need this level of background info for that style of game. If this were some fantasy type game or a game with an overarching plot, it'd be more relevant.

But continuing this thread of discussion. Sophia is a highly educated woman. Who also said she and Liam did lot's of sexual stuff in those days, obviously as they had 2 kids in a very short timespan.

So, to me, the big ? is how is a sexually expierenced, highly educated woman can be so...I'm not sure of a nice way to say it. But gulible and easily manipulated. I alluded to this in my review from a while ago. Sophia acts like a sheltered and naive person too often. While she is obviously, from her own background lore, is neither of those things.

This is another inconsistency. Mismatching a characters persona with a background that doesn't quite add up. This also bleeds into some of the routes, I assume a person from a wealthy (and thus, I assume, somewhat influential and powerful) family shouldn't be blackmailed so easily. Especailly from people in her own school.
 
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palmtrees89

palmtrees89

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Jul 3, 2021
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Sabertooth__ said:
They definitely are older looking than "prepubescent" children.

Now, we accept all the other facts of the game and use it as argument, eg. Dylan is 16, Ellie is a virgin, San alejo is a hot place, Aiden's uncle is a powerful lawyer, Morello is a mafia boss, Sophia loves her children a lot etc. Everything mentioned in the game is used as a fact of the world the game is in.

Suddenly refusing one of the facts is just your personal choice.

These dialogues were written way back when he didn't even know how the people will react to the storyline. He wanted to show them a little younger than Dylan and Sam and he did that. If that makes them immediately below 11 yr old to you then that's just you bending things as you see fit.

But that doesn't change the facts of the game. They are not the age you say they are. I have proved the point. Unless you can prove it wrong there is no point in talking further about it.

As for your point about looking younger. Julia looks far far younger than a 17 yr old. Never seen you complain about that.

As for the other thing you said :-
"to create content only according to those results. I didn't even say that there was a poll on "which character should have more content"

View attachment 1605126

You have directly contradicted yourself or you didn't phrase your words right initially. You can't put the blame on me for misunderstanding.

As for the pedo thing, I did mention it is for educational purposes. I came across the differences recently so I thought why not share it while we are on the topic. I have mentioned that too in that previous message. You didn't read it.
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You're a lost cause, buddy. You're trying so hard bending reality and things I said just to make it fitting for you, it's almost like you're in denial. If you can't process what I'm saying, it might be better not to reply at all.

By the way, above statement applies not only for the replies to my posts, as can be seen in your discussion with GingerSweetGirl aswell as your arguments with ViperDonkey before, and probably many others I can't think of right now. I'm gonna steal the term mental gymnastics from GingerSweetGirl as i find it to be a very fitting term here.
 
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nexer

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Feb 5, 2019
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GingerSweetGirl said:
Oh, this is my favorite topic to rant about because it's all such an unforced error. But I'll take it in a different direction because my feelings on the apostles are well known.

The whole issue around age in this game (and SOOOOOO many AVGs) is contrived and really frustrating to me. The mental gymnastics we have to do to make these ages work is just absurd. In this case I'm specifically talking about Sophia (I'll leave the kids out of it for now), because apparently it's just too much to be a desirable woman in her 40s. Instead, we have to cram everything into her life at the earliest possible moment in order for her to be as young as possible, but still old enough to be a MILF. It's both stupid and a little creepy.

This woman did the following:
  • graduated high school at 17- ok, that's easy, I did that too.
  • Went to college, and completed a biology Masters program in 5 years- These sort of programs do exist, but they're not extremely common and are very strenuous. But it's complicated by the following points.
  • Immediately became a professor/lecturer- Wait, what? No college, not a university, not even a community college, is going to hire a professor straight out of a Master's program. You can barely even find adjunct professor positions. These are like the rarest of rare jobs in academia. The idea that a 22 year old woman, with no experience and (presumably) no publishing credits to her resume, would be hired to teach others is absurd.
  • Met Liam and got pregnant at ~21- So Liam and Sophia dated, had lots of crazy sex (according to Sophia), and hurried up and got knocked up and married. She did this, all while perusing an INCREDIBLY challenging 5-year Master's program AND immediately getting a job lecturing/teaching in a college setting.
  • Sophia gets pregnant again- Ok, so by the age of ~23, Sophia has completed a 5-year intensive program, become a professor (for lack of a better word), gotten married, and had two kids.
Is all of this possible? Yes. Does it pass the smell test? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And my real bitch about it is that it's all so unnecessary. It didn't need to be this contrived so that everyone is just old enough but also just vague enough so you can fit whatever kink you want into the game. It just feels amateurish to me, like "God, I really want to have a MILF, but damn, 40 is just too old, and I want her to fuck her kids...and I want to dance around their exact ages." Would it really have been so bad to do something like:
  • Sophia graduated with a Masters degree at the age of 23
  • Sophia conducted biological research and published her work at the age of 25
  • By the time she was 26 she was an adjunct professor at a local community college, and was working on her next research paper
  • Sophia and Liam were married when she turned 27 after she unexpectedly became pregnant with Ellie.
  • Sophia became pregnant with Dylan when she was 29 and she left her job to be a stay-at-home mom.
In my telling of the story, Sophia would be ~45 at the start of AWAM if we assume that Ellie is 18. All it would have taken was for L&P to firmly establish an age and commit to the idea that older women can be sexually desirable. But instead he bent over backwards to make sure that Sophia was as young as possible (maybe 40) and leave everything as poorly defined as possible. That drives me nuts. In a game that is all about details, that wants to lean into the whole MILF fetish, the fact that he couldn't openly embrace that Sophia is closer to 50 than she is to 30 is both frustrating and insulting.
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What an angry woman we have here :love:. Love ;)
Firstly, if you read a few stories on liberotica you'll find that 38 is a very common age. Something has to be.

Secondly a teaching career starts immediately after the master's degree. What this person does, teaches students, helps in specific activities, ... I guess it depends on the lack of staff/capabilities of that person. Let's imagine she didn't work at a very rich university. So we can leave it at that.

Now, barring exceptional genetic inheritance combined with lots of sport, 45-50 is an age of many transformations in people's lives.
Usually it's the face that hides age (treatments, make-up), but if we go down: skin on the abdomen, skin on the thighs .... :unsure:
You can slow down the process with iron discipline, but
Big Question: does such a "self-disciplined" woman give in so easily to temptation? :unsure:
 
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palmtrees89

palmtrees89

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Jul 3, 2021
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Sabertooth__ said:
I will just say straight and simple.

I have proven my word with actual facts from the game and definitions. That is not "my opinion" that is fact from the game. Unless you can prove it wrong. You are the one in denial.

You directly contradicted yourself and have the audacity to say I am in denial. Then not providing anything of substance except for "I don't agree with you " against whatever I said and then say I am denial.
Goes to show who really is in a state Denial.

As for the point with Gingersweetgirl, I agree with her but there are slight discrepancies in our outlooks and I have admitted that in my message. Don't try to rope in people that in order to negate what I am saying.
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You sure did prove alot today, but not much of it had anything to do with the game. You do you, buddy.
 
N

nexer

Forum Fanatic
Feb 5, 2019
4,628
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GingerSweetGirl said:
No no no, this is the definition of mental gymnastics. Parents in academia don't just snap their fingers, call in some favors, and get you a job. Is there corruption and nepotism in academia, sure, but now we're going to assume that it would be "easy" for her parents to get her a job as a professor? Absolutely not. If that were the case then no kid with parents who are professors would ever struggle to get a job.

Also, let's address the elephant in the room- a college educated woman with college educated parents getting pregnant in her early 20s. As educational attainment increases, the average age for a woman's first birth increases proportionally. The median age at the time of first birth for a woman with a master's degree is 30. There's additional research that I've read elsewhere that women coming from highly educated families will wait even longer- so a woman with a master's degree from uneducated parents may wait until 30; while a woman with a master's degree with parents who also have master's degrees may wait (on median) until she's 32.

The point is that, in order for Sophia to give birth at 21 she would not only have to be incredibly busy in her life but would also shatter statistical trends that have existed for decades.

And yeah, maybe I'm overthinking it, but that isn't my fault. It's a glarring error that a creator would concoct such a story and not overthink it. Clearly L&P thought about this topic, he's clearly an educated person himself. But it's like he only half-assed the work enough to please his kink and didn't bother with all the rest. That lack of attention to detail matters though because it has created continuity issues that are glaring if you stop to think about them at all. And this is a game that wants to attract more than the typical audience only interested in a quick wank/jill.

You could even say that this is just another example of L&P's spotty organizational skills. He had an idea, but didn't really think it all the way through.

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Click to expand...
There may be different education systems and therefore differences. L&P applies the German reality to the American system, hence the difference.
As for children, I think you are using current statistics and applying them to a reality of 20 years ago. Wrong.
And the picture of the two in the article, Meghan and Harry, is definitely not correct. Harry was looking for a "politically" suitable wife, and Meghan ... a woman with too much ambition. Aside from "Suits," .... :unsure:
 
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Alley_Cat

Alley_Cat

Devoted Member
Jul 20, 2019
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jamdan said:
Sophia's educational background was overexposed. We never needed to know any of those things. Are they interesting? I guess so, but they aren't important in the grand scheme of things. This is a slice of life game, you don't need this level of background info for that style of game. If this were some fantasy type game or a game with an overarching plot, it'd be more relevant.

But continuing this thread of discussion. Sophia is a highly educated woman. Who also said she and Liam did lot's of sexual stuff in those days, obviously as they had 2 kids in a very short timespan.

So, to me, the big ? is how is a sexually expierenced, highly educated woman can be so...I'm not sure of a nice way to say it. But gulible and easily manipulated. I alluded to this in my review from a while ago. Sophia acts like a sheltered and naive person too often. While she is obviously, from her own background lore, is neither of those things.

This is another inconsistency. Mismatching a characters persona with a background that doesn't quite add up. This also bleeds into some of the routes, I assume a person from a wealthy (and thus, I assume, somewhat influential and powerful) family shouldn't be blackmailed so easily. Especailly from people in her own school.
Click to expand...
She only gets blackmailed easily because players choose it. I call Aiden a "two-bit tryhard" simply because his attempts at blackmail are so weak. There is no real consequence to refusing his demands, and Sophia is better connected enough that a member of the family can get Dylan into a better school two days after Aiden's demands are made.

And even if with Dylan at boarding school he gets discovered by Aiden and beaten up, what possible reason could Aiden assert that doesn't put him as the instigator?
 
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Bane71

Bane71

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Apr 21, 2020
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CobraSGT said:
Developer: Lust & Passion
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Thank you for adding Subscribe star!

I have one more request and suggestion.
We can see that these images have been around for quite some time:
CobraSGT said:
Click to expand...
Since these images were posted, the game has moved quite far forward.
In my opinion, it would be great to add a dozen or even a half new images from subsequent updates!
I think this is useful for those who visit the pages of this forum for the first time and get acquainted with the post containing these images.
 
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Alley_Cat

Alley_Cat

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Jul 20, 2019
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狗子你变了 said:
If Sophia were Asian, she would look much younger than she is now. :HideThePain:
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Have you played Free Pass? Very similar to AWAM (the dev is even a fan), but with an MC (and dev is) from Myanmar. Even puts out monthly updates about the same size as L&P puts out in about 6 months. And is far friendlier (I mean, even actively promotes fan artists). We've even had to threaten him with kidnapping because he works too hard to please his fans.
 
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Ruby Tuesday

Member
Jun 29, 2020
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I am overwhelmed and amazed by the various intelligent arguments surrounding Sophia's reality status, and how seriously this game is taken. Nothing wrong with that, quite the opposite. It shows once again how L&P has tapped into an area of erotica many recognise as stimulating and made it reachable by way script and imagery. And how it throws opens so many questions and debate.
I'm also highly impressed seeing contributors so resourceful in supplementing their arguments with past data and renders, so quickly and effectively. Also a pity when others revert to defensiveness to protect their ego when realising their rational has been exposed, or they have written something inflammatory, inaccurate or inappropriate. Because it isn't necessary, especially when a sense of camaraderie can exist between contributors on this forum and make it even more creative.
Regards Sophia's "reality status" as a woman with academic achievement, career (presently part-time, even with her qualifications), physical fitness, extraordinary beauty and physique together with family, money, and kids. I come back to my point this is strictly a work of fiction. Few desire, or care about pin-point logical reality regards chronological datelines in a story. Yes it helps authenticate, and it's interesting to speculate and analyse, but for most, frankly not that important except maybe to a statistician or mathematician.
Having said that, exceptional women like Sophia do exist at her age (assuming nearing 40). It's a rare combination of attributes, qualities and advantages, but not totally implausible. To summarise, we specifically admire the fictional character of Sophia directly for being so exceptional, yes, even her attitude toward fidelity. Including strangely, seeing that very sense of fidelity being tested, liberated, and gradually worn down. Sorry but I've never liked the term corrupt, because it implies weakness, and Sophia is far from that.
Regards Sophia's looks, I've been in the company of adult women who have looked at another and observed,
"It's not fair, why is she so slim and pretty? Has a great bust, AND nice legs". As if this combination could never exist. Well, it can.
I've have also known grown women married with kids who are astonishingly naive about sex, how to please their bed-mate, or even familiar with the male anatomy, as surprising as that might sound to some.
While Sophia doesn't fall into that latter category, it does suggest nothing is impossible or implausible regards this story.
 
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Ruby Tuesday

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Jun 29, 2020
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nexer said:
Two exemples: India Summer 46, Julia Ann 52. I give examples of porn stars, obviously. There is physical decay in both of them. My point is: 45+ is ..... on the edge
On the other hand, how old was Kay Parker when she filmed "Taboo"? 36yo
Click to expand...
I'm sure those women would be very flattered. (Charmer!)
 
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3.20 star(s) 514 Votes